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Problems with artificial score pumping
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valicious
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BrianBSHS wrote:
valicious wrote:
kilik8880 wrote:
I am for te leaderboard reset it just sounds like fun!!

And if you have a problem with this their is a good chance that you are one of the cheaters

if your skills are true and as good as the leaderboard shows than it shouldn't be a problem to go right back up to the top


That's not necessarily true. I myself don't really mind resetting, although I would be mildy upset to say the least because I worked so hard to acbieve those points. Anyone who says I am cheating are free to ask those top players that I beat one on one and also those players that I teamed with.Some of them were former number 1. Those players know who they are and some of them actually made some posts here. So just because I am not totally for it, I'm not totally against it either. All I'm saying is why not do it the way those successful online games do it? I just don't see this as the ultimate solution. Of course those who arent top 25 would say reset it, but have the opinions of the top 25 players been asked with the exception of those that are proven guilty of cheating? If the majority of the top 25 says yeah, then I will never no longer post my humble and UNBIASED opinion here because there will no longer be a point since a top 25 majority's decision. Just like Warkilla said, though I'm not defending him or anything, hard work is needed to get up there (and that's with him getting some help) now imagine getting up the ranks without or with very little help.

Find the real solutions because resetting is not the real solution. Reset it and the more advantage it will be for those pumping their scores since they can always log in as anon to help their clan members in ffa games or 2vs2, right? I'm pretty sure most of you guys, based on your posts, didn't realize this one major flaw!




"Those successful games" like Diablo II have a ladder and a non-ladder leaderboard. So why don't we add a copy of the leaderboard that resets. The first leaderboard would gain points just like it normally would while the second one would be reset every so often.


Just like what Brian said, some of the good online games have 2 leaderboards, others have different categories. It has been brought up before and I honestly think it's a good idea. Those who are really having a hard time climbing up the permanent leaderboard will get the chance to dominate or prove that they can also be considered top players albeit for a month or so. Here's what I said about it:

valicious wrote:
So basically what we're trying to do is have a permanent and official leaderboard and the ladderboard willpretty much be like "flavor of the month" of "player of the month" am I correct? It should be reset every month though and there should be a list of Number 1 player of the month only for that. There are different formulae/calculations to figure out the number 1 player of the month is. Just because the player is in first place at tue end of the month doesn't make him the best player of the month. It's based on point system too like how long did you hold that spot for and what other spots you held before being number one. The longer you stay on top or close to it the more you get a chance of being the best player of the month. And don't forget about the clan leaderboard, which I guess is another topic but also related to this one. What do you guys think of my idea?


Here's the link to the topic: http://www.warfareincorporated.com/xyzzy/viewtopic.php?p=20398&highlight=#20398

Anyways, it's getting a little offtopic so once again I'll get to the point. Reprimand cheaters if they're caught and tweak the rules and regulations...enhance the game for the good of all players.

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wonderer
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm sorry just because you can reach the top but not fight any of the topplayers your not realy a topplayer.
So then theirs no point of resting their accounts they will still be on top. They would boost another way like gang up, or one of them would be an anon and gang up on one other players. their would be no point of having two leaderboards.

val said '' Those who are really having a hard time climbing up the permanent leaderboard will get the chance to dominate or prove that they can also be considered top players albeit for a month or so.''

so cool I beat everyone and im number 1 for the whole month or two months i realy didnt prove much if the original topplayers never played me. o yea they could come and fight me one time and never again. but one time realy dont prove much. if they rest the leaderboard then the origanls topplayers would have to fight more just to get their spot back well if they want that 1# spot. or be like the rest.....

well if they do have two leaderboards then show the resting first and the origanl one we would have to click on it to see it. i hate seeing top players up their that dont even play anymore.(no im not trying to fight the 1-10 topplayers but it would be nice to only to see if i have improved much.

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valicious
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wonderer wrote:
i hate seeing top players up their that dont even play anymore.(no im not trying to fight the 1-10 topplayers but it would be nice to only to see if i have improved much.


Last time we played was like a couple weeks ago wonderbra. I used my other id, remember? We all know you got skills, too. We all know that we beat each other a few times. We also know that you beat Warkilla just recently hehe. I'm pretty sure you can beat some of the top 10. It would be tough, but you don't really need to be top 10 to prove how good you really are. 2 leaderboards would be pretty cool so others can be top 25 for at least a month. To minimize cheating, one of the solutions is to just allow 1 id per device, not ip, because some people share wi-fi. With regards to clan members playing as anon, the best solution to it is to just not play them. I've had my share of losing thanks to them ganging up on me, but it is a part of the game. As for clan members pumping scores, the best way is to not allow members of the same clan play against each other. If they really wanna play each other, they can always log in as anon to try out new things or just to see who's better among them. For that to happen, the server has to be able to identify the origin (device) of the players' device so that it won't matter if they log in as anon because the server won't allow the same clan members to play vs each other unless they're logged in as anons and does not involve players outside of the clan.

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valicious
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wonderer wrote:
Maybe each bye the number of wins not points not not kills in the game. But kills after the game ended and yes they could cheat but the anons won't count as a kill

so free4all I kill ihatepies but Ihatepies kills Val and Val kills an anon.

I get a point and ihatepies gets a point a Val gets no points.

It will only work if the computer can understand who killed who I think it does that already. If people do cheat we can find out how they are and . The next month is a new month


Here's proof that you did like the idea of having two leaderboards.

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wonderer
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well all of the time i talk about people being good or not im talking 1vs1.

its like yea we played a few weaks ago but how times before that its been like months since i realy played a person and that raped me lollol. i guess its me but ya'll care to much about you scores/ranks.

hell yea i love both leaderboards but ya'll dont play much anymore(real topplayers). but its like ipwn he's ranked at 97 with 1750 last game he played was on january 31 back when rcb was rcb when ho was playing when uknown was playing 5 games at once. lol he was a top 10 but he still on the board for some reason. lollollol.

tihs i dont no anymore.

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N@TE
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reset main once per year Reply with quote

I'm all for the secondary leaderboard; it was brought up by Brian about three weeks ago and has since then been ignored after a few posts on the subject. Now it looks like it's actually going to happen. I say (and will probably be alone on this) reset the main leaderboard once a year, at January 1, the beginning of every year. As of right now the leaderboards are kind of high for anybody to join, which is good, but by the end of the year, and mark my words, the bottom will be at least 2000. The leaderboard for every year would be put up on the forums as "Leaderboard of ____". Ex: Leaderboard of 2010. You would then be able to see the leaderboard as of December 31, 2010, or whatever year it would be.
As for galms idea: It is great sounding, and a good concept, but lets look a week into the future after that has been put in place. (Wavy screen turning white, then going to the forums in a week) Some top player: "Argh I used to be one of the best players but now everybody knows my strategy and all of my moves and I can't beat hardly anybody anymore! I have to constantly think of new strategies but those are alway taken by other viewers!" It would be something like that, with the forums in havock about this and all newbs now knowing too many strategies. Okay so maybe it would take a while to master the strategies, but if you're a person viewing many top players a day you could learn pretty quick.

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valicious
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know what guys, Nate is actually right on this time. I think it's a very good idea.
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N@TE
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:49 pm    Post subject: Thanks Val Reply with quote

valicious wrote:
You know what guys, Nate is actually right on this time. I think it's a very good idea.


Thanks Val, much appreciated. You were the least one I expected to agree with me Val, being such an extremely highly ranked player like yourself. It just seems like every place on the leaderboard has been moved up about 200 points since I joined a little less than 4 months ago. Heck, I remember when #100 was less than 1550. I think that having #100 being around 1700 is good, but eventually say in like 3 years, the bottom will be around 3000, if it is not reset every year. That's double what you start off with. Now of course throwing away the leaderboard every year would be bad, so have it on the forums for all players to see and for Vet players to remember. Now I just hope other people will agree with me…

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:44 pm    Post subject: Two scores? Reply with quote

Wait, hang on, I just realized something. Wouldn't having two leaderboards require two scores? Just because the leaderboard is reset doesn't mean the scores are, and if the scores aren't reset then how can the leaderboard be? I may be completely wrong here, so somebody help me out if I am. I guess that there would have to be two different score names as well. The one we have now would be called something like "Main score" and the other would be called maybe "Ladder score" or "Month score". Everytime you gain points on one, you gain it on the other, and the exact same amount. The only difference is that one would get reset every month ("Ladder/Month score"), and the other would get reset yearly (Saying other people agree to that idea of mine). You would be able to see both scores by going to your profile on either leaderboard, but only by tapping and going into the profile. Now like I said, I may be completely wrong here, but it doesn't make sence to me any other way, with one score.
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wonderer
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they rest the the main leaderboard every year then show the top 50/25 players. Only nothing less Hopefully 25 and up. I thoughabout that to Nate about two different scores and ranks. Seems crazy if you look at them.

Maybe the main leaderboard would be on the forms since the top25 players look at the forms more then the rest.well they been here longer?:-/

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BrianBSHS
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you get points now, the points you get are based on your score vs. their score. It is changed accordingly.
When you play a game, the points will be changed by the same algorithm, but 2 different times.

Player A: 1600 (Non-Ladder) 1500 (Ladder)
Player B: 1650 (Non-Ladder) 1500 (Ladder)

When player A beats player B, player A gets treated on the "Non-Ladder" Scoreboard as beating a score of 1650 while being only 1600.
As well as that, player A's "Ladder" score will be affected, but only as being 1500 and beating another 1500.

I hope that cleared it up bit more.

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scottlu
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two leaderboards is an interesting idea. And Brian's right, that's how the scoring would work.

But I have a question: with two leaderboards, one permanent, and one reseting, we still have cheating problems that mostly affect the permanent leaderboard. Is this ok? Are you saying by having two leaderboards this problem isn't as big of a deal, because players have the reseting leaderboard?

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wonderer
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it would be better only because we hopefuly not be able to see the main leader board so it well help my eyes focuse better on whos actual playing and who's better.well the people that are realy playing.

the top 5 players would have to fight. only to stay on top for their leaderboard. and the cheating wont be seen as much so it should put us at ease. time well tell but rest their scores or well go after warkilla and other boosters

aww brain just had to use the numbers so close to each others and he had to use play a and player b. God i hate a's and b's. my bad but i cant tell the different but i understand what your saying.

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N@TE
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:27 pm    Post subject: Got off topic Reply with quote

I think it just got a little off-topic. We got going about the leaderboard being reset, and then went back to Brains three-week old brilliant idea, and then it just got into leaderboard stuff from there. Well at least we figured some stuff out. It would fix some cheating problem though. Now we have to figure more out:
    How many accounts should be allowed to each player?
I think most players would prefer two accounts, as it allows more freedom and more fun. It does not solve the cheating problems as well as having only one account though.
    What other rules should be put in place?
Just this won't be enough to stop cheating. With two leaderboards and one account, that may stop cheating. Maybe not completely, but at least pretty well. I don't want to be limited to the number of times I can play one player per day, because even with that rule i place, you could do one cheating game per day and still gain points. Also, as Scott said, we should be able to play whoever we want, in a clan or not. Keep in mind that cheating also happens outside of clan activity. Not as much as in-clan, but it still happens.

Finally, we need to end the leaderboard chat for right now, so I need to reask this question and get results, and feedback.
    Do you think resetting the regular leaderboard yearly is a good idea?
Look at my posts six above this one, and the one eight above this one. Please respond.

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wonderer
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well i see no point of talking about tryin to fix the cheating problem, other then sweaping it up under the rug and hopfuly it wont come back and give us asama.
if scottlu wont rest their accounts or any thing else so why not just hid the problem. just until the top 25 players all boosted to get up their. then maybe we can try to solve the problems some more. well see in a year what happens.....

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